Extra Credits (aka Extra Harassment)

[Poonoo]

Oh God, not this bullshit about how we need to make fighting games simpler and simpler. Divekick FUCKING SUCKS.

Modern fighting games have tutorials now that explain the mechanical depth of them, and even ones like Tekken 7 that don't though have a lot of youtube videos out there explaining them anyway. That depth is what makes them so damn enjoyable and can keep you playing for years, when you don't have that and make it easy for everyone you get a game like DOA at best where it is awesome at a casual level but offers nothing beyond that.

I've been playing Tekken 3 lately because I have getting emulators to work on my phone for my trip, and while the game is still fun and holds up it is extremely simplistic compared to 5 or 7. The combo depth is far greater in the later games and the rounds are over really quick in 3. There is side stepping but no sidewalking and no strategies for accounting for walls. Just looking at the combo list in practice mode felt strange, I don't remember the game having so few moves, in Tekken 7 playing with Steve is fucking fun since I have to many damn options. Even a character like Heihachi in 7 who is way more simple has more depth than most characters in 3.

Think about that for a second, and realise that some of these cunts want games to be significantly more simple than that. They want everything to be fucking Super Turbo to "not be exclusionary" but that skill ceiling is what makes the damn genre so fucking interesting and makes the competitive scene matter.

And tictac, Core A Gaming addressed how retarded that video was.

[mad bum]

tictac is about to lose his mind Half the fun for fighting games is getting gud yourself and seeing your progress and training actually show for something. DBZ did auto combo's and the FGC went crazy (and still sorta do) about it.

[Kugelfisch]

That figtan video is the toppest of cancers and is the perfect video to show someone to quickly explain how fucking retarded EC is. It's a majestic display of why I say they are completely wrong about everything and propose the exact opposite of what is good.

No, you absolutely, drooling retard! It's not that the FGC doesn't want new players. They don't want scrubs. The kinda faggots you say developers should focus on and sadly did in the case of Crapcom.
Why don't we make fighting games easier? Because they don't work that way. We're not talking about Rock, Paper & Scissor here. We're talking about shit that's complicated by nature - and that's a good thing.

Take Smash. Let's talk mechanics.
You can move, jump, dodge, block, grab and attack. Characters have different weight and size, which means that a combo may or may not work, may or may not kill. Sm4sh has a rage mechanic, which influences heavy characters more than light ones. You've got ledge mechanics, can move your shield, your shield can break, can charge smash attacks, can jump cancel out of shield and can jump cancel out of sprint.
There are spikes, there's block pushback, there's block stun and hit stun, B-reversal, dash B-reversal. Characters coast a bit out of a sprint, some more than others, and some may have such a large delay between the sprint animation and the sprint that you can use the animation to delay an attack, there are dash dances. You can vary he height of your jump, you can wall jump, some characters can stick to walls, some characters can bounce off of walls, you can vary the speed you fall at, there are fast-falling and slow-falling characters, you can vary the direction while in air directionally and delay or reverse your fall with attacks. Attacks have sweet spots, sour spots and all kinds of hitboxes, hurtboxes and frame data. You have DI and smash DI. You can tech ground impacts, tech on walls unless you're hit "meaty". You can roll out of tech, get up instantly or not tech and keep lying down.

Look at all that shit! I know for sure I've missed something but that's already a wall of text full of terms that all would warrant their own tutorial video. This is a party game brawler we're talking about here. That's why you play Smash, random YT comment fuckboy? Very badly, I bet.
To just explain a "simple" fighter like Smash takes hours for the baseline knowledge. We've not even touched execution, application, situational use, let alone advanced shit like wave dashing. We've also not talked about specific characters, the specialities of sword users or all those unique special attacks.

We're condensing a whole gaming experience into a two minute match with thousands of possible situations. And you know what? People can fucking handle that! It's the challenge of this that makes it fun in the first place. That's why the FGC tells everyone to fuck off who suggests that it ought to be made simpler.



EC is to fightan what crossfit is to lifting. We know more than you. It does not fucking work the way you dream up. You're just dead wrong about all that shit you say and your way is what is called in science "not even wrong". You're missing the mark so fucking much you didn't even make an argument to debunk. You're plain missing the point and everyone genuinely interested will not even be able to tell you how wrong you are because if you were interested in mechanics you would not have said something so profoundly dumb in the first place.
EC are the kinda niggers to propose just slingshotting spacecrafts to the moon, pretending they have figured out something smart, without even comprehending how fucking dumb they sound.

[VoiceOfReasonPast]

This reminds me of those times I get triggered whenever I read about some idiot talking about how making games "more accessible" is the logical evolution of gaming (just like how other asshats say that realtime is the logical evolution of turn-based). But, you know, sometimes I just want to play FreeSpace instead of Space Invaders.

Greater focus on single player modes would be nice, but that's only worth it if the modes aren't trash and just having a lot of modes won't ensure the modes are worth playing. Game balance matters so much more in fighting games than other genres. The only two single-player modes in fightan games I always play are free practice and custom vs AI.

Back when 3D fighters where huge, their console releases always had at least one gimmicky single player mode. Nowadays, even ArcSys who put Visual Novels with a bit of fighting into their BlazBlue releases just made Xrd's "story mode" a fucking movie.

[Kugelfisch]

School kids play MOBAs and CS. Ever noticed how actually complicated those two are? I know it's popular to shit on them but in all honesty, they are not pick up and play kinda games. Kids have the time to get into that shit and talk about strategies in the school yard.
In reality, it's the hipster soyboy "gaming journalists" that want all games simpler and simpler. Don't actually have to play the game and only push two buttons? 10/10 GOTY!

[VoiceOfReasonPast]

No joke: I have no troubles with fightan james and arcane RPGs, but MOBAS? They're option overload for me.

(And yet I've found some quality post about how MOBA is the evolved, streamlined successor of RTS.)

[ban]

Kugel's right : look at wha tthe kids play when not on their phones and what others play. Stark difference, even when they don't play CS or Mobas. They don't give a fuck. First it was posers, then it was facebook gaymers, then it was hip mobile fucks, now it's every third mouthbreather in the street because gayming is a celebrity hobby at this point. We only need dedicated tabloids and we'd have gone gone full Tinsel. Kids don't give a shit and if they want to read a game magazine they'll do it like kids : look at the pretty pictures, focus on five bolded key points, notice the genre and platform and go on youtube to see the trailer and it's a done deal if mommy gives them allowance to buy it. It's always the pretenders attention whore faggots who are thirsty to be in the contrarian center of attention to feed their egos.

How do you guys can even stand to listen to his gaming videos is a miracle, the fuckers are so wrong, I wish I could punch them through the PC screen so their bitch mouths would stop moving forever.

side spergeShow

That is what cunts like Portnow want, they don't want games or any artform to be art despite what they say, they want everything to be propaganda for their beliefs. In comics, look at how Warren Ellis handled the trans issue in Transmetropolitan with the Transient movement compared to his recent series Trees. In Trees they are presented as one big happy family, while in Transmetropolitan the reality that they can't change back is brought up and the general weirdness and creepiness of it is focused on without flat out calling them scum, as they are also treated like shit by society while not being angles themselves. A writer who knew about the complexity of an issue was convinced to make shallow, shitty propaganda that is boring and uninteresting in current year +3. That is what these cunts want, and fuck them for daring to even claim they give a shit about advancing any medium.

NOPE!Sorry but that triggers my autism boss poonoo. Warren Elis is a hack fuck who rides on the coat-tails of others and when left alone he often copies mango storylines very blatantly for his capes. You forget that Transmetropolitan is an effort by two : Ellis and Darick W. Robertson who also drew and outline the comic. Ellis writting that dribble isn't him cowtowing to those cunts, it's him being exposed for the lying cunt that he is. Either that, or he suffers from George Lucas syndrome and needs someone who can reign him in in order to not write / make such hackery.

[Le Redditeur]

These guys don't like to face defeat, pure and simple. When I pick a new game to play, I usually play one or two hours in the lowest difficulty to get used to its gameplay and controls, and then I restart it on the hardest difficulty available so I can finally "start" it. If the game doesn't have active gameplay, I usually skip the lowest difficulty and go straight to the hardest one available (for example, I never played Fire Emblem: Awakening on nothing less than Lunatic with permanent death on). Civilization 5 with the Artificial Unintelligence mod is the only game I'm having permanent problems with playing on the hardest difficulties, and I had to crank down to Emperor (6 out of 8 levels) because the better AI + difficulty advantages that the AI get on Immortal or Deity are still too much. That's part of the fun of it, overcoming the challenge, getting better at it, even when it's "unfair". It's one of the most baffling things that I find about DSP besides his general financial incompetence - complaining about the challenge instead of overcoming it.

Of course there are challenges that are just annoying. Darkest Dungeon is the most prevalent example I can think of - since most of the challenge comes from random critical hits causing stress and random surprise attacks fucking up battle formation, there's no real point in trying to overcome them - you either are lucky and avoid those situations, or you aren't and get completely fucked. Even so, I sunk around 30 hours on that game, trying to find ways to ease the randomness and overcome its challenges, before giving up because it seemed pointless. But hey, the attempt to master the system was fun enough while it lasted. Gittin' gud was a reward on its own. The Game Over screens were just part of the fun.

[rabidtictac]

School kids play MOBAs and CS. Ever noticed how actually complicated those two are? I know it's popular to shit on them but in all honesty, they are not pick up and play kinda games. Kids have the time to get into that shit and talk about strategies in the school yard.
In reality, it's the hipster soyboy "gaming journalists" that want all games simpler and simpler. Don't actually have to play the game and only push two buttons? 10/10 GOTY!

And there's a reason for it too. It's because they want to spam out reviews easily. Complicated games that never end are frustrating for game journo pros, especially if the game requires skill to even experience legitimately.

The last of cucks and dad of war are perfect games for them because they can just sperge about muh narrative movie structure all day and watch cutscenes.

[MegaNigger]

No joke: I have no troubles with fightan james and arcane RPGs, but MOBAS? They're option overload for me.

(And yet I've found some quality post about how MOBA is the evolved, streamlined successor of RTS.)

Options? Sure.

What works? 1 meta at any given time.