Star Dreck

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Re: Star Dreck

Post by Guest » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:05 pm


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Rushy
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Re: Star Dreck

Post by Rushy » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:14 pm

Kugelfisch wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:58 pm
That Shatner is a bad actor, especially for 70s TV, is a very stale take.
My take is that DeForest Kelley is.
Or maybe it's just that McCoy is a fucking useless supporting character and he didn't give a shit, because I've yet to see Kelley do anything in this show but grumble. And when he has anything else to do, he looks uncomfortable.

If they wanted McCoy to represent Kirk's "human side", they should've given him some more humanity. Have a major storyline about McCoy putting his foot down on some ethical issue or repenting for an error in judgment that he made in the heat of the moment. There's little bits here and there, but compared to Kirk and Spock, McCoy always gets the shaft in terms of focus on his character.
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Re: Star Dreck

Post by Kugelfisch » Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:46 am

If you'd put him in some 40s gangster movie he'd be right at home. He's the actual boring, by the numbers actor.
You'd halfway expect him on the set of a wobbly-walled lab set being mostly on the phone about giant ants/slugs/whatever is on the poster but only in the movie for two minutes.
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Regurgitating the same tired, hack, and inaccurate opinions from the past fifty years is better than actually watching TOS like some nerd.
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Re: Star Dreck

Post by rabidtictac » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:49 am

Kugelfisch wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:58 pm
That Shatner is a bad actor, especially for 70s TV, is a very stale take.
This. He gave a lot of humanity to a role that, in other shows, ends up very stale and by-the-numbers. Unlike most leading men in older action tv shows, Kirk has very real flaws.
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Re: Star Dreck

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:05 am

Rushy wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:14 pm
There's little bits here and there, but compared to Kirk and Spock, McCoy always gets the shaft in terms of focus on his character.
He has like one episode featuring time travel, I think. Also plays a fairly big role in everyone's favorite Spock's Brain.
He's mostly a human version of Grumpy Cat, though. Later Trek doctor get far more to do.
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Re: Star Dreck

Post by Kugelfisch » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:43 am

Never mind /tv/ guest being a faggot. Neither can he comprehend how good of a show Trek was back then, nor can he determine it's good writing that still holds up.
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Re: Star Dreck

Post by rabidtictac » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:09 am

I never had an issue with McCoy really. He's there to contrast with Spock. Kirk, as the commanding officer, can't get into arguments with Spock on a regular basis because it would seem petty and juvenile. As CO, he can overrule every debate anyway. But McCoy and Spock hold equal rank and can freely debate their worldviews without any power imbalance. McCoy typically tends to the more "touchy-feely" country doctor side of the argument, while Spock is the scalpel that mercilessly cuts away problems with no consideration of emotional difficulty. In theory, anyway. But Spock isn't emotionless. He's just more coldly logical. Logic without emotion is as incomplete as emotion without logic. Spock is there to ask the tough questions and give the advice that's hard to hear. McCoy is there to present a typical viewer reaction about how heartless said advice is. Every show needs characters who represent the audience and McCoy is often that character (in episodes that don't center around his medical expertise.) Maybe people like McCoy less exactly because he feels more like an audience insert.

The episode of classic Trek that I think holds up best is "Where No Man Has Gone Before." It's an early one, but it establishes the principle characteristics of every good Star Trek episode:

-complex moral dilemma (is murder ethical to prevent a possible greater threat?)
-questions about the nature of humanity/transhumanism
-a threat that cannot be defeated by conventional weapons
-bittersweet conclusion

If you look at all of the best Star Trek episodes across all the various series, you'll often find these elements at play. Trek sets up problems that can't be solved with bullets (unlike a police serial or crime drama), frames discussion between opposed worldviews and lets the conflict play out to resolution. "Duet" from DS9 is the same way.

-complex moral dilemma (should you allow a show trial/remove rights of the accused to condemn a possible Hitler)
-questions about humanity (the nature of evil)
-threat cannot be defeated by conventional arms (he's not even a military threat, just a civilian traveler)
-bittersweet conclusion (Kira awakens to her own cuntishness as an innocent man dies)

"Measure of a Man" is the same too. So is The Drumhead.
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Re: Star Dreck

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:39 am

Excellent choices. Really Trek is best when it's about moral dilemmas.
Duet reminds me there are a couple DS9 episodes they would never do like that again in Current Year. The other one I can think of is that one where it turns out that the Bajoran fempope was in cahoots with the Cardassian colonizers (ratting out resistence cells to prevent larger massacres, if I'm not mistaken).
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Re: Star Dreck

Post by rabidtictac » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:14 am

Another one I'm quite fond of is "Let This Be Your Last Battlefield" from original Trek. It was very much ahead of its time. Some of the better episodes of later Trek series amount to little more than retreads of ideas pioneered in this episode. It's a "progressive" episode that doesn't play favorites with either the supposed oppressed or oppressor.
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I like this episode for the same reason I hate DS9 Kira. Kira is basically the "oppressed" alien from this storyline, except we're supposed to take her side and ignore what a victim-narrative bitch she is. She's a former ISIS member who murdered non-combatants btw. But oh, her life was just so hard. Don't get me wrong, she's probably the most complex character in DS9. But she's a massive cunt.

A few of the really good DS9 episodes shit on Kira, which is always deserved, but the series still ultimately takes the side of Bajor. Cardassians are largely treated as villains, oppressors and stooges. The Bajorans go down as Good Bois who dindu nuffin, except for a couple of bad apples like Kai Winn. Their religion even ends up proven literally true!
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>liberal: ban x
>trump: yeah ban x
>liberal: no bro x is awesome

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Re: Star Dreck

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:54 pm

The Bajorans did nothing wrong.
rabidtictac wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:14 am
Another one I'm quite fond of is "Let This Be Your Last Battlefield" from original Trek. It was very much ahead of its time.
It's also probably the most grimdark Trek episode. The only other episode I could compare it with is Chosen Realm from Enterprise, where the ship gets hijacked by religious fanatics for use in some civil war (only for them to notice that all major cities on their planet have been nuked in their absence).
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