Fighting Games

[Kugelfisch]

Exactly how it should be. Simple game plan, simple combo game, small but efficient tool box. Aught to be mid tier from a design standpoint. He has his strengths but no benefit over characters that can answer well to his gimmick. From there you design other characters.
Gief is fucked if zoned out by Ryu but wrecks him up close.
Dhalsim has trouble going in but can just stay at a distance.
Guile is maybe the most interesting character. Copies Ryu's game plan of FB into Shoryu, but even more simplistic and more predictable in exchange for about the same combo potential but many more buttons.
It all goes back to the question of how one would deal with Ryu. Weak to his zoning must be strong up close. Weak up close must be able to deal with his zoning. Predictability, like charge characters, is a negative but otherwise balanced like with Guile being able to answer the FB spam, Boxer, Dictator and Claw can forego his FB either entirely or advance really fast, Dhalsim can stay at range but is slow as hell and so on.

When Ryu is trash, your entire roster balance has a massive problem.

[rabidtictac]

Pretty much yeah. Ryu is as "street fighter" as "street fighter" gets. But now Capcom doesn't know what to do with him because they broke all his tools and gave him nothing. They broke fireball and shoryu and apparently his damage isn't even that good.

Akuma's always been a better Ryu, with the tradeoff of less health. But now there's no contest. Akuma is high tier or top in SFV while Ryu is bottom.

A big part of why I like Ultra SFIV is I feel the balance is right about where it should be. There's only 3 characters I would choose to nerf and maybe only 4 I would buff.

I would nerf Elena, Evil Ryu (he should have Akuma or Seth health) and Yun. I'd buff Dee Jay, T. Hawk, Hakan and Oni. I don't know if Oni has less health than Ryu but he shouldn't if he does. Hawk, DJ and Hakan are known bottom tier. Elena is bullshit and the only new Ultra character who is just too strong. E. Ryu shouldn't have as much health as he has considering he's at least as good as Akuma. Yun is just bullshit generally.

But that's all. I wouldn't buff Hugo despite people saying he's bottom tier because Hugo still fucking destroys when he gets in close and he can hardcore bully anyone without a fireball. His normals are massive and you can't usually win a poke war against Hugo without projectiles.

[mad bum]

[VoiceOfReasonPast]

Evil Ryu and Oni are such strange design choices.

"So what's this Evil Ryu like?"
"Oh, he's Ryu with more tools. And a bit less health I guess."

"So what about Oni?"
"He's basically Super-Saiyan Akuma and... worse than Akuma."

[rabidtictac]

Evil Ryu and Oni are such strange design choices.

"So what's this Evil Ryu like?"
"Oh, he's Ryu with more tools. And a bit less health I guess."

"So what about Oni?"
"He's basically Super-Saiyan Akuma and... worse than Akuma."

Not even that much health IIRC. I remember I think Evil Ryu is like 950 and Ryu is 1000 or some shit, so it's barely a difference. But Evil Ryu is just Ryu with like ten times better everything. And Ryu in Ultra SF IV isn't even bad! That's why I think he needs a nerf. People played Akuma at tournament level even with his low health. E. Ryu needs to have Akuma health or lower. But nobody is going to go back to balance an old game.

Oni is just weird. There's some really good Oni players and I wouldn't say he's not viable, but he's very weird. He reminds me of Sakura or Dan. He has the shoto tools but they don't work the same way. He's heavily based around rushdown. I do think he should get a buff and if his health is below 1000, the simplest buff would be to just increase his health. His play style seems to favor slugging it out, vortexes and close-range mixups, so he a health buff would allow him to do that more.

Fuck being worse than Akuma, Oni is arguably worse than normal Ryu.

Elena and Yun are just too good and need nerfs. I know there were no Elena players but that doesn't matter because she's still fucking broken in tournament high-level play. You can just run away the entire time because of Healing. Her lack of fireball doesn't matter when she can eat fireballs with focus to charge healing. And if you try to rush in, that's where all her moves and mixups are dangerous.

Some people think Poison is broken too. I dunno. I never saw the same level of her play in Ultra. Mostly people just spammed her fireball. I know she's like the worst matchup in the game with Hugo though. Or Gouken is.

[Kugelfisch]

No character should ever have potent healing in ANY fighting game. Wii Fit Trainer gets like three percent from a fully charged neutral B and that's fine. Robin has a better heal but you can only use it two times and it's basically just a grab that doesn't give you any followups. That's fucking Smash, where ten percent give or take really don't matter in the grand scheme of things. In a game where every hitpoint can make the difference between life and death, having healing is ridiculous.

Akuma is top tier in current SFV because they want him to be top tier. Just you watch them always having a DLC character be top tier. They made Bison broken intentionally and they said as much. They want to, intentionally, nerf and buff characters to be broken or trash so people see other characters in tournament play season after season.
I'm at a loss for words with current Crapcom.

[VoiceOfReasonPast]

That ought to be fun for Capcomtards who stick to Street Fighter no matter what. Hope they get really blatant with that stuff, just to rub it in.

I almost think they've reached some kind of Tite Kubo phase, where they try to see just how much they can fuck up before shit hits the fan.

[rabidtictac]

SFV was the Tite Kubo phase.

No character should ever have potent healing in ANY fighting game. In a game where every hitpoint can make the difference between life and death, having healing is ridiculous.

Yeah, Elena's Healing is so shitty in SFIV. It forces you to play her game and her game is both boring and annoying. Watch tourney play of Elena in USFIV. It's batshit insane.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StreetFighter/ ... r_in_usf4/

She's easily top 5 in the game. If she didn't have Healing, she would still be good but not nearly as broken.

[Kugelfisch]

Watch tourney play of Elena in USFIV. It's batshit insane

Oh I did. Even important tournaments. Every healing super causes an audible "Uuuuuuugh" by the viewers. Fuck. That. Shit. Kill that character ASAP!

[rabidtictac]

It's a lot worse when Elena goes up against a character that can't punish healing. Or even one that can't punish it with anything strong.