April Lon Gon - Former tard wrangler of Spoony, future Bethesda C&D target

Whine and Bitch about people long after they become interesting to talk about
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oldbones

Re: April Von Lon - Orc, Honey Wine Brewer, Professional Skyrim Player, BDSM Writer & Domina to Spoony

Post by oldbones » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:01 pm

Kugelfisch wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:56 pm
Tony Schiavone wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:41 pm
Sure it did.
Did the Elon Musk smell like empty promises, stupidity and overconfidence?
Can't blame her. Competence and dignity are two things severely lacking in the Spoony household. Unfortunately the Obama scent is actually capitulation and weakness. What she really needs to buy is the Trump scent which smells like success. And maybe stop buying the Clinton which smells of swamp and perversion.

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Re: April Von Lon - Orc, Honey Wine Brewer, Professional Skyrim Player, BDSM Writer & Domina to Spoony

Post by Guest » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:14 am

VoiceOfReasonPast wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:45 pm
And just for comparison, the manchilds behind Pathfinder nerfed weapon cords into the ground after one of them did some "myth busting" and deemed them as too unrealistic.

Meanwhile, the party Monk can jump from the top of Mount Everest without hurtin himself, the Druid is an Agressively Hegemonizing Ursine Swarm, the Wizard flies around and drops angels or devils everywhere, and the Cleric is the Angel Summoner to the Fighter's BMX Bandit.
Dude? I've seen this bit of rant before.

One sentence: "Hey guys, I'm houseruling pre-errata weapon cords back in." Seriously. Honestly, I can't even see an issue coming from this unless you're miffed you can't completely negate disarms for the investment of a buck. At that point, it's a system issue.

Reading the rest, I'm going to guess this is more from 3rd because I snickered a bit. And no, the monk can't do that. A level 20 could slide down the side of the Empire State Building, but a level 19 is street pizza.

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Le Redditeur
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Re: April Von Lon - Orc, Honey Wine Brewer, Professional Skyrim Player, BDSM Writer & Domina to Spoony

Post by Le Redditeur » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:34 am

3rd Edition monks are utter trash. "I can run faster than anyone, but I also need to spend a full-round action in melee to use Flurry of Blows! I get a penatlty to hit when using it, and my attack bonus is already subpar for a melee class! I need four different stats to be above average to barely function! I get magic resistance but can't turn it off for beneficial spells! Enhancement bonus for my AC and attack/damage rolls cost double! Paladins sneer at me because they at least can get a feat to cast all their spells as a swift action, while I can use a swift action to stick up my thumbs up my ass! THE POWERFUL MONK!"

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Re: April Von Lon - Orc, Honey Wine Brewer, Professional Skyrim Player, BDSM Writer & Domina to Spoony

Post by Guest » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:49 pm

Monks are and were always just a bag of tricks. They did get some fixing, though. In their defense, the multi-attack thing is universal, both for penalty and having to full-round it. Rapid shot and two-weapon fighting did the same, so they weren't singled out. Flurry also got better and the penalty vanished over time.

In 3.5, at least, spell resistance was always optional. It was all or nothing by turn, but you could turn it off.

MAD did kill them, I admit, and did it to Paladins too. What really kneecapped the monk was the item issue and that they were designed for a relatively low strength, finesse build. Kept their AC surprisingly low and the math functionally demanded that they stay unarmed, so they never really got the static damage modifiers.

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Re: April Von Lon - Orc, Honey Wine Brewer, Professional Skyrim Player, BDSM Writer & Domina to Spoony

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:39 pm

Monks have always been weird in that they get a bunch of random, weird-ass powers and doodads that are mostly just flavor.
Le Redditeur wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:34 am
3rd Edition monks are utter trash. "I can run faster than anyone, but I also need to spend a full-round action in melee to use Flurry of Blows! I get a penatlty to hit when using it, and my attack bonus is already subpar for a melee class! I need four different stats to be above average to barely function! I get magic resistance but can't turn it off for beneficial spells! Enhancement bonus for my AC and attack/damage rolls cost double! Paladins sneer at me because they at least can get a feat to cast all their spells as a swift action, while I can use a swift action to stick up my thumbs up my ass! THE POWERFUL MONK!"
They're a skirmisher class in a system that penalizes you for moving more than a step per turn. Previous editions let you do all of your attacks no matter how far you moved, but 3.X was super anal about it. Except when it was a monster with Pounce, then it was A-Ok.
Guest wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:14 am
One sentence: "Hey guys, I'm houseruling pre-errata weapon cords back in." Seriously. Honestly, I can't even see an issue coming from this unless you're miffed you can't completely negate disarms for the investment of a buck. At that point, it's a system issue.
Houserules are amazing, but I'd like to buy my shit from people who aren't batshit, lest they think that's okay.

I mean, they once started a huge shitstorm when they tried to nerf Flurry of Blows (forcing you to use it exactly like TWF, aka no more doing all Flurries with a single monk weapon) while pretending it was always supposed to work that way, even though nobody ever used it like that and it would've made several weapon-centric Monk archetypes (like the Zen Archer) completely useless.

And then they made Starfinder, where every piece of equipment follows a JRPG tier structure, each new tier adding 1-2 additional dice to the damage roll. That's literally the most retarded shit I've seen in all of d20.
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Re: April Von Lon - Orc, Honey Wine Brewer, Professional Skyrim Player, BDSM Writer & Domina to Spoony

Post by Guest » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:15 pm

VoiceOfReasonPast wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:39 pm
I'd like to buy my shit from people who aren't batshit, lest they think that's okay.
I will legitimately wish you the best on that one. Pathfinder and 5e are about the sanest I've seen systemwise.
VoiceOfReasonPast wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:39 pm
I mean, they once started a huge shitstorm when they tried to nerf Flurry of Blows (forcing you to use it exactly like TWF, aka no more doing all Flurries with a single monk weapon) while pretending it was always supposed to work that way, even though nobody ever used it like that and it would've made several weapon-centric Monk archetypes (like the Zen Archer) completely useless.
I'm unaware of that one, but don't doubt it. I won't defend it, but I do get it. Paizo is terrified of Power Creep, and with good cause. The Summoner is flat-out broken and in this case the Ranger is probably the 4th best archer. I'll wager that they were trying to redress the TWF cost problem and failed. From the sounds of it, at least, they knew enough to back off.
VoiceOfReasonPast wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:39 pm
And then they made Starfinder, where every piece of equipment follows a JRPG tier structure, each new tier adding 1-2 additional dice to the damage roll. That's literally the most retarded shit I've seen in all of d20.
Star Wars D20, not Saga edition though it may apply too, don't know. Both the stamina/HP system and the weapon increases ultimately come from there, though they only applied to Jedi. Fewer tiers, too, but pretty much why the All Jedi or No Jedi rule exists, and I've made that mistake. Also the dumbest armour mechanic I've seen.

Still not defending, just saying where it came from. The game was fairly popular, so they built a system on its bones.

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Re: April Von Lon - Orc, Honey Wine Brewer, Professional Skyrim Player, BDSM Writer & Domina to Spoony

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:04 pm

I just don't see why Starfinder should have characters be more gear-dependent than ever before in this obvious attempt to pad out weapon lists. Han Solo isn't rad and awesome because he has two buy at least two new super ultra death blaster pistols per movie, he's rad becase he is rad.

And Paizo is afraid of power creep in the wrong places. They specifically wrote the Combat Feats so there's as little synergy potential as possible (cause we don't want a warrior dude being able to to a Spring Attack and a Vital Strike at the same time; that would be ridiculous!), and the Monk doesn't need nerfs. He already sucked as is, and a lot of major Paizo staff members don't make a secret of not liking the class very much. There is a Monk version that sucks less, but that's in its own book (because I guess we don't want to scare off the 3.Xtards too much or something).

And Paizo seems to mostly suck when they have to make 100% original content, as seen with the Summoner. Or even their version of the Ninja which is just a Rogue, but better.
Autism attracts more autism. Sooner or later, an internet nobody will attract the exact kind of fans - and detractors - he deserves.
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Re: April Von Lon - Orc, Honey Wine Brewer, Professional Skyrim Player, BDSM Writer & Domina to Spoony

Post by Guest » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:48 pm

VoiceOfReasonPast wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:04 pm
I just don't see why Starfinder should have characters be more gear-dependent than ever before
I'm sorry, but the hell you say?

There are dissertations and admissions from WotC for 3rd, 4th and Pathfinder on required equipment to match the CR progression of enemies. Once you get to higher levels in any of those you're functionally required to maintain the highest numerical level of a cloak of resistance, weapon, amulet of natural armour, armour/bracers, ring of deflection, belt of physical attribute(s), headband of mental attribute (wisdom) and shield (build dependent, of course) that you can afford or you fall behind the curve. The only way an heirloom sword, or whatever, can exist past level 3-4 is if your GM lets you continually re-enchant it.

This has been a complaint basically since it came out that anything else, AKA getting to play with the cool stuff, sets you behind the curve. Pathfinder's automatic progression and a lot of 5th was built to get away from this.

Starfinder functionally does away with the belt and headband, reduces the cloak and makes it a ring and then consolidates the rest into your armour. The nifties are freed up and can largely be ignored if you want and the weapons, while level based, only actually start to surpass the DnD basics around level 10-12, which is where the game's magic damage ramps up to stupid. Level-to-level, you're dealing with two required things as opposed to up to eight.

I don't LIKE how the game gets as ridiculously damage happy as it does, if for no other reason than Shadowrun flashbacks, but you're not dealing with more gear than in 3rd or Pathfinder.

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Re: April Von Lon - Orc, Honey Wine Brewer, Professional Skyrim Player, BDSM Writer & Domina to Spoony

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:03 pm

Not necessarily more gear, but more gear-dependent. A 20-level Barbarian with a vanilla battleaxe is pretty sub-optimal, but he still has all his built-in multiple attack, feats and Strength bonus to help him out.

Starfinder on the other hand moves from a Tactical Semi-Auto Pistol with 1d6 damage to a Elite Gyrojet Pistol with 5d12 damage. Or from a Hunting Rifle with 1d8 damage to a Paragon Seeker Rifle with 12d8 damage. Also shopkeepers can apparently see your level because the book just kinda expects the GM to never have stuff in stock that's above the party level.

I don't care if there are less inventory slots around, this Final Fantasy shit is more video-gamey than 4th ed ever was.
Autism attracts more autism. Sooner or later, an internet nobody will attract the exact kind of fans - and detractors - he deserves.
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Re: April Von Lon - Orc, Honey Wine Brewer, Professional Skyrim Player, BDSM Writer & Domina to Spoony

Post by Guest » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:27 pm

VoiceOfReasonPast wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:03 pm
Not necessarily more gear, but more gear-dependent. A 20-level Barbarian with a vanilla battleaxe is pretty sub-optimal, but he still has all his built-in multiple attack, feats and Strength bonus to help him out.
The same barbarian, or wizard for that matter, in vanilla vs full upgrade is a difference of 15 AC and a full sword-and-board fighter has a difference of 20. AKA from "Only Miss on a 1" to "Only Hit on a Nat 20"

The difference to hit or avoid having his soul flicked out of existence is 8, or 40%.
VoiceOfReasonPast wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:03 pm
Starfinder on the other hand moves from a Tactical Semi-Auto Pistol with 1d6 damage to a Elite Gyrojet Pistol with 5d12 damage. Or from a Hunting Rifle with 1d8 damage to a Paragon Seeker Rifle with 12d8 damage. Also shopkeepers can apparently see your level because the book just kinda expects the GM to never have stuff in stock that's above the party level.

I don't care if there are less inventory slots around, this Final Fantasy shit is more video-gamey than 4th ed ever was.
Over the course of all 20 levels of items, yes. In 13 levels the spells in that game go from 2d10 to 18d8. Besides, you wanted your fighter to be Guts? The Dimensional Slice Longsword is one way to do it. I maintain that I don't much approve of it, mind you.

What stores stock what and shopkeepers only showing the good stuff to big spenders thing has always been a thing back through until at least 3rd as a GM recommendation at least. Just no one I know's ever really bothered with it. The same conceit in reverse is what prevents a wandering Ancient Red from deciding your village looks tasty within the first five minutes of play.

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