Star Dreck

Music, Movies, just about anything that isn't gaming related but is still entertainment goes here.
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Keith Chegwin
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Re: Star Dreck

Post by Keith Chegwin » Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:20 pm

Liar Revealed wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:12 pm
Sadly, the first JJ Trek movie made the most money out of all Trek films.
Yes but he also spent the most money out of all the Star Trek films.
rabidtictac wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:55 pm
Let's be real: it was the anniversary game that Sonic deserved. A celebration of everything that makes the series what it is. Unbridled autism, failure and incompetence.

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Cuckara
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Re: Star Dreck

Post by Cuckara » Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:26 pm

Keith Chegwin wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:05 pm
JJ did admit he was too much of a brainlet to understand Star Trek, but a lot of it has to do with the Viacom split. Even if someone competent wanted to do something with Star Trek, they couldn't. This is the '25% different' concept Rushy has difficulty understanding

TL;DW
>Viacom used to be one company, encompassing CBS Corporation and Paramount Pictures.
>The guy who owns the parent company of both, National Amusements, split them into two companies.
>Paramount, who were actually technically responsible for making all of Star Trek from TOS to Enterprise, got to keep the Star Trek movie rights.
>CBS Corporation, who never made Star Trek and never had any interest in making Star Trek, got to keep the TV show rights. >Paramount wanted to but couldn't make new movies, because they're built on the TV show rights.
>CBS let Paramount licence Star Trek from them but kept the merchandising rights, in effect creating a new Star Trek licence
>In order to merchandise their new licence, Paramount had to make everything legally distinguishable from the original Star Trek licence, hence the '25% different' figure
Oh yeah, I've heard about the 25% legal stuff. However, I think that only partially excuses J.J. and Kurtzman. Yes, they had to make things noticeably different, but they went above and beyond 25% different. Kurtzman has particularly fucked things up; Discovery is a prequel and Picard is a sequel, so with those shows, Kurtzman could've made something a bit more in-line with actual Star Trek than J.J.'s reboot series since he had more room to invent new things than J.J. had, but Kurtzman instead took the worst parts of J.J.-Trek and turned them up to 11.
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Cuckara
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Re: Star Dreck

Post by Cuckara » Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:29 pm

Keith Chegwin wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:20 pm
Liar Revealed wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:12 pm
Sadly, the first JJ Trek movie made the most money out of all Trek films.
Yes but he also spent the most money out of all the Star Trek films.
This. I'm pretty sure that if you take The Voyage Home's box office gross and budget and adjust them for inflation, it ends up being more profitable than Star Trek (2009) and Star Trek Into Darkness.
"I'm a nasty cock slut" - Lewis Jeffrey Lovhaug

""How do I explain to my daughter incest is wrong?" Is it actually wrong? I don't know, this is like a... This is a crazy fucking thing." - Steven Kenneth Bonnell II

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Keith Chegwin
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Re: Star Dreck

Post by Keith Chegwin » Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:45 pm

Cuckara wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:29 pm
This. I'm pretty sure that if you take The Voyage Home's box office gross and budget and adjust them for inflation, it ends up being more profitable than Star Trek (2009) and Star Trek Into Darkness.
They like to tout that JJ's Star Trek made more money than any other Star Trek. But JJ made not even $400 million on a $150 million budget. Plus the merchandise sold like dogshit because nobody wants Chris Pine Captain Kirk dolls when they can have William Shatner Captain Kirk dolls instead. If it were made today they'd be calling it a flop
rabidtictac wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:55 pm
Let's be real: it was the anniversary game that Sonic deserved. A celebration of everything that makes the series what it is. Unbridled autism, failure and incompetence.

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VoiceOfReasonPast
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Re: Star Dreck

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:51 pm

And I'm pretty sure movie tickets were a lot cheaper when Wrath of Khan came out
Cuckara wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:58 pm
The fundamental problem with Nu-Trek is no one involved understands Star Trek. As far as I can tell, Kurtzman, J.J., and their cronies took a look at the old shows and movies and said "boring! Modern audiences don't want an optimistic, slow-moving story that explores themes and scientific ideas. They want explosions and a simple, gritty, melodramatic good vs. evil narrative." They would rather turn Star Trek into generic sci-fi action schlock than make proper Star Trek. What is mind-boggling is they keep doing this again and again even though it has failed to attract new fans to the franchise and has totally alienated old fans of the franchise.
I think this shit triggered me more than most. The Balance of Terror is more nuanced than anything that came out for Nu-Trek. Not to mention various episodes about moral dilemma in TOS alone.
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Keith Chegwin
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Re: Star Dreck

Post by Keith Chegwin » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:22 pm

Cuckara wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:26 pm
Kurtzman has particularly fucked things up; Discovery is a prequel and Picard is a sequel, so with those shows, Kurtzman could've made something a bit more in-line with actual Star Trek than J.J.'s reboot series since he had more room to invent new things than J.J. had, but Kurtzman instead took the worst parts of J.J.-Trek and turned them up to 11.
Well see, the video goes into this. The idea that the 'Prime Universe' is everything Star Trek before JJ's reboot is just kayfabe. Really, 'Prime Universe', 'Kelvin Universe', all of that, is all part of the new Paramount Star Trek licence. The original Star Trek canon, that's everything from 1966-2005, is dormant. They have to pay CBS to use anything from the original Star Trek licence but Kurtzman is free to use anything from JJ's films that he likes. That's why Discovery's uniforms more closely resemble the reboot's rather than the TOS uniforms.
rabidtictac wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:55 pm
Let's be real: it was the anniversary game that Sonic deserved. A celebration of everything that makes the series what it is. Unbridled autism, failure and incompetence.

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Cuckara
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Re: Star Dreck

Post by Cuckara » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:50 pm

I know all about that. What I'm saying is Kurtzman's hackery is the biggest reason that nu-Trek is absolute trash. I think someone who actually likes Star Trek could've conformed to the legal bullshit and made something good. That person wouldn't have been able to make something that's pure Star Trek, but they could've made something that resembles it. Instead, that idiot Les Moonves handed over the reigns to Star Trek to the retard who made The Mummy (2017) and co-wrote The Amazing Spider-Man 2.

Kurtzman is a uniquely terrible hack, and it's clear that he has no love for Star Trek whatsoever. I would even go as far to say that most of the creative decisions on Discovery and Picard reek of loathing for Star Trek. I think Kurtzman actually likes the 25% different bullshit because it gives him an excuse to completely change everything and disregard canon.
"I'm a nasty cock slut" - Lewis Jeffrey Lovhaug

""How do I explain to my daughter incest is wrong?" Is it actually wrong? I don't know, this is like a... This is a crazy fucking thing." - Steven Kenneth Bonnell II

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Keith Chegwin
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Re: Star Dreck

Post by Keith Chegwin » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:57 pm

Cuckara wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:50 pm
Kurtzman is a uniquely terrible hack, and it's clear that he has no love for Star Trek whatsoever.
It's clear he has no love for anything, not just Star Trek. Everything him, Orci, Lindelof or JJ are involved with have the same quality to them. The same mixture of terribleness and bland uniformity we've come to expect from a standard Hollywood blockbuster

Believe me, I'm not defending Kurtzman. I've hated everything he's ever done. I'm just saying that, given the restrictions on them, even a competent creator would find it difficult to do anything good with Star Trek, or anything that hews close to what people expect of the series
rabidtictac wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:55 pm
Let's be real: it was the anniversary game that Sonic deserved. A celebration of everything that makes the series what it is. Unbridled autism, failure and incompetence.

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Kugelfisch
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Re: Star Dreck

Post by Kugelfisch » Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:04 am

Even if there was no licensing bullshit at all going on they would fuck it up. Writing that makes characters unironically say "Science rules!" *fistpump* could have all the rights in the world but wouldn't produce something watchable.
They make really dumb shows by and for really dumb people and then say that it's a smart show for smart people, patting themselves on the shoulder. It's like watching a group of mongos make something without any help, just not nearly as entertaining.
VoiceOfReasonPast wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:45 pm
In large enough quantities, it might also be the secret behind the Voyager firing more photon torpedoes over the course of the series than it actually started with.
Slam the child on the hard concrete!

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Re: Star Dreck

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