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Rushy
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Re: Books

Post by Rushy » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:11 am

It's at this point where I wanted to yell at the characters to start talking like human beings. Literally everyone is a philosopher in Chapterhouse.
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Re: Books

Post by Keith Chegwin » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:53 am

Kugelfisch wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:25 pm
I'm currently at Dune Chapterhouse. So far it's by far the worst of the Dune books. The writing style is notably different as well. It's the last Dune book he wrote before he died and it reads a lot like he was rushing to finish it before he keeled over.
In general, the premise of the second trilogy having to do so much with fucking comes off as silly at best, if not retarded.
You're not planning to read any of the books by the son, are you?
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Re: Books

Post by Charlar » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:59 am

Keith Chegwin wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:53 am
Kugelfisch wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:25 pm
I'm currently at Dune Chapterhouse. So far it's by far the worst of the Dune books. The writing style is notably different as well. It's the last Dune book he wrote before he died and it reads a lot like he was rushing to finish it before he keeled over.
In general, the premise of the second trilogy having to do so much with fucking comes off as silly at best, if not retarded.
You're not planning to read any of the books by the son, are you?
If he does want to know how they are i'd recommend either looking up reviews or sypnosises
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Re: Books

Post by mad bum » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:49 am

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Kugelfisch
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Re: Books

Post by Kugelfisch » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:54 pm

Rushy wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:11 am
It's at this point where I wanted to yell at the characters to start talking like human beings. Literally everyone is a philosopher in Chapterhouse.
Yeah, it's getting real tedious. For the other books it took me two to three days. I haven't read any further for a few days now.
He's starting to shorten sentences more and more. That was obvious right from the start, which I found jarring. I've always learned that in actual writing you should write complete sentences unless you're going for some specific style.

I have a feeling that many things mentioned will lead to nothing.
Keith Chegwin wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:53 am
You're not planning to read any of the books by the son, are you?
I don't think so, no. At this rate, unless something finally happens I'll be glad when I'm done with Chapterhouse. I am well prepared for a shit ending.
There really isn't a character left I care for. Odrade supposedly has a plan and I'm afraid it will be some dumb shit. The last book had Miles Teg and it was good to finally have a character again that I actually liked. I feel like Leto was kinda wasted ptential in God Emperor. I've been sick of Duncan Idaho for the longest time now. Gurney, the much more memorable and interesting of Pauls teachers should've gone on instead of forgettable Idaho.

At the point I'm now Teg hasn't been "awoken" yet. I just know he'll be a shit character this time around. Everything points to it. I can't fucking stand Idaho in this book. I don't care for Odrade with her stupid sea girl dream bullshit or any Bene Gesserit for that matter. Scytale is likely just going to be some ol' bullshit as well.
The Honored Matres are the dumbest bad guys by far. Even in the literal sense. They seem to be near braindead stupidity.

I'm going to take a wild guess now: No Bene Gesserit every came back from the Scattering. I'm thinking one of them bacame abomination and somehow took over all that shit. Of course influenced by the good old Baron. Likely some weird mixing with the Face Dancers as well. The ending is going to be utter shit, I'm afraid.

I really don't like the book thus far.
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Re: Books

Post by Kugelfisch » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:10 pm

And it seems like I can't spell anymore. I'm too lazy to correct all that shit.
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Re: Books

Post by Rushy » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:31 pm

Making Duncan Idaho the only continuing character was idiotic. He's basically just... a guy. A guy that didn't get fleshed out in six books. Why does he serve the Atreides? I dunno. What does he even want at this point? I dunno. Why does he fall in love with Siona or Alia? I dunno. Even after recovering his memories, he barely seems to notice that "holy shit, I'm thousands of years old and everybody I've ever known is dead".

Scytale somehow went from any old Face Dancer in Dune Messiah to a Tleilaxu Master in this trilogy because... reasons?

Who ever gave a shit enough about the Bene Gesserit to want two(three if Frank had lived) books devoted to them?

It feels like the characters ponder over literally every line of dialogue.

The end of Chapterhouse did get me hyped up because it was the only interesting thing that had happened since God-Emperor. Too bad Brian Herbert fucked up the ending. I will say though, that Brian is a much less tiresome writer than Frank and I reread his Dune books much more often than his father's, especially the prequels which take place decades before the original Dune and can be read as an independent piece of work.
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Re: Books

Post by Kugelfisch » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:01 am

I was perplexed quite a bit when I read the foreword to Dune Messiah from Brian. In it he stated that his father decided to bring back the "much beloved" and "fan favourite" character of Duncan Idaho.
Who? Oh, that training instructor that died. You know, the one that isn't memorable at all because he was supposed to die not even a quarter into the very first book.

So you write a hard SciFi series of books. With the technology in your universe you can potentially bring back any character you want. You bring back "generic leader of the guards" and somehow don't make the guy likeable or interesting in most of the books, yet somehow make him the lynchpin of the entire series.
I just don't get it. I really don't. He's not relevant in Dune. He feels forced in Dune Messiah. He finally gets some character in Children of Dune with what feels like a completed arc of the character.
At the beginning of God Emperor him still being around is almost played for jokes. He's treated as a very disposable character. But then, suddenly, he's treated like if he's the protagonist.

And I'm not just annoyed by Idaho. I'm more annoyed by what wasn't used. Gurney is disregarded. Who comes back from the trilogy in God-Emperor? Idaho. That's it. Leto's dude he's got there, practically his advisor I've forgotten the name of, was much more interesting.
Leto himself is almost a footnote. Many interesting things happened between the trilogy and God-Emperor. Usually you tell those interesting tales. Instead we get the back end. Children had a kickass ending and God-Emperor skips all that interesting shit and barely uses Leto.
Heretics is pretty much a new start. Started slow but eventually picks up and I really, really liked Miles Teg. He's getting a fantastic conclusion of his arc. I enjoyed all parts with him. Heretics ended at a really good starting point for Chapterhouse. I even kinda liked Idaho.

But Chapterhouse, fucking Christ is it a dumpster fire right from the start. I'll try to finish it tomorrow.
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Re: Books

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:19 am

What I'm getting from this is that Idaho might be a self-insert or something, and that death matters as much as in DBZ.

Speaking of hard sci-fi, I always wanted to check out the Foundation trilogy.
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Re: Books

Post by Charlar » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:05 am

VoiceOfReasonPast wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:19 am
What I'm getting from this is that Idaho might be a self-insert or something, and that death matters as much as in DBZ.

Speaking of hard sci-fi, I always wanted to check out the Foundation trilogy.
Death matters even less in Dune and i recommend the foundation books. I found out that Isaac at some point in his life unified the Foundation series with his Robots and Empire series in a extended storyline that spans 20000 years
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