Books

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veris leta facies
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Re: Books

Post by veris leta facies » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:20 pm

Lynch's Dune isn't that bad. It's just that book readers dislike how it differs from the book and others find it too confusing. I can't watch it without a huge sense of nostalgia though, I was 10 when I saw it first time, I didn't understand shit but loooved it, it became like my Star Wars or something (I saw the SW original trilogy a couple years after that), today I still find those sandworms impressive. Frank Herbert himself also said he did like the costume design and the visual tone of the movie (now I'm just trying to find excuses to praise this film).
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Re: Books

Post by Rushy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:15 am

Herbert full on loved it(though I do think it's more because he was just amazed that somebody made a film based on his work).
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Re: Books

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:42 pm

It's definitely a bit weird. Though it could work great for animu.
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Re: Books

Post by Kugelfisch » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:07 am

I'm still not done with Chapterhouse but it's finally starting to pick up the pace. Still my least favourite book of the series so far. I'd give it two out of five stars right now.
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Re: Books

Post by Rushy » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:57 pm

I bet you're just loving the epic Duncan/Murbella romance.
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Re: Books

Post by Kugelfisch » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:23 pm

Rushy wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:57 pm
I bet you're just loving the epic Duncan/Murbella romance.
Did I ever.

I finished Chapterhouse. Overall verdict: Crap
As you said, the only interesting stuff happens well, well towards the end. The ending is, as I was already afraid of, some ol' bullshit. The worst part is that I get the feeling that Herbert thought he was being very smart with it, when the "reveal" was foreshadowed long before. Not subtle either with that foreshadowing.
And yet, it doesn't answer anything in a satisfying way. I know there was supposed to be a last book but dude died. I know that book kinda exists written by his son instead based on his notes and shit. But quite frankly, Chapterhouse was so bad that I'm not interested. I would, maybe, read the last book of the trilogy if it had been written by Frank himself, just for completion's sake. I'd be fully prepared to hate it, though.

Dune 5/5
Dune Messiah 4/5
Children of Dune 5/5
God Emperor of Dune 2.5/5
Heretics of Dune 3/5
Chapterhouse: Dune Fuck off/5

I'm 90% sure to end it here.
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Re: Books

Post by Rushy » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:34 am

Cliff Notes version of last book
- Brian totally ignores the fact that Daniel and Marty are advanced Face Dancers and turns them into the machine characters from his prequels.
-The advanced Face Dancers do appear only to be killed off, and are hinted to have been created by a prequel character.
-All the old characters from the previous novels come back as gholas and do jack shit, they're just there for a happily ever after.
-Duncan is revealed to be the Ultimate Kwisatz Haderach and combines the machines and humans. He won't go crazy like Paul and Leto because, in his own words "he won't".
-There's a pointless subplot where a ghola Baron Harkonnen hears Alia's voice in his head for a never explained reason.
-Suddenly, the worms can exist on any planet. They pop up through the burnt husk of Arrakis, some are genetically modified to be "seaworms" and they easily take over any other planet they're introduced to.
-The Spacing Guild were led all this time by an "Oracle of Time"(prequel character) whom all Guild Navigators obey. She pops up at the end to deus ex machina the machine leader into another dimension.
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Re: Books

Post by Kugelfisch » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:42 pm

Sounds like a dumpster fire. Duncan is my personal Jar Jar Binks. Yeah, no, I'm done with Dune and if anyone ever asks me I'll recommend the first three books and to stop after that. Just imagine the Golden Path and you'll likely come up with something less bullshit.

A thing I don't like about the entire series is how many loose ends there are. There are things brought up to never matter again, characters just don't show up anymore, plot points are entirely dropped. For Dune Messiah it makes sense to drop several things as at some point the situation drastically changes. That's plausible as things can happen that just overthrow plans and it's fine to shake up things to confront the characters and the reader with something unexpected.
But especially later on, too much is just left in a ditch. Futars and Handlers, the priesthood of Dune, the Tleilaxu and their everything, especially Axolotl tanks, the entirety of Ix, the Imperium and the importance of the great and smaller houses and so on and so forth.
Oh and fucking space Jews. What a waste of time and what a silly concept. Too many factions are just never really explored. Too much is left in an unsatisfying open end or just doens't matter anymore because we skip ahead thousands of years. Most importantly, it's just not Dune anymore after God Emperor. The whole flavour changes too much and when Chapterhouse comes around the writing style changes so much it reads like one of those craptastic Cthulhu mythos books written by some wanker other than Lovecraft. It's writing about similar things and uses the names but reads nothing like it.

Frank Herbert supposedly had parts of Children of Dune already in mind when he wrote Dune. I can believe him having a loose concept for the first three books. After that, it seems, he didn't know where he wanted to go with it and just enjoyed writing about fucking like some demented old pervert. He should've left Dune after three books alone.
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Re: Books

Post by Rushy » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:57 pm

Kugelfisch wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:42 pm
Sounds like a dumpster fire. Duncan is my personal Jar Jar Binks. Yeah, no, I'm done with Dune and if anyone ever asks me I'll recommend the first three books and to stop after that. Just imagine the Golden Path and you'll likely come up with something less bullshit.

A thing I don't like about the entire series is how many loose ends there are. There are things brought up to never matter again, characters just don't show up anymore, plot points are entirely dropped. For Dune Messiah it makes sense to drop several things as at some point the situation drastically changes. That's plausible as things can happen that just overthrow plans and it's fine to shake up things to confront the characters and the reader with something unexpected.
But especially later on, too much is just left in a ditch. Futars and Handlers, the priesthood of Dune, the Tleilaxu and their everything, especially Axolotl tanks, the entirety of Ix, the Imperium and the importance of the great and smaller houses and so on and so forth.
Oh and fucking space Jews. What a waste of time and what a silly concept. Too many factions are just never really explored. Too much is left in an unsatisfying open end or just doens't matter anymore because we skip ahead thousands of years. Most importantly, it's just not Dune anymore after God Emperor. The whole flavour changes too much and when Chapterhouse comes around the writing style changes so much it reads like one of those craptastic Cthulhu mythos books written by some wanker other than Lovecraft. It's writing about similar things and uses the names but reads nothing like it.

Frank Herbert supposedly had parts of Children of Dune already in mind when he wrote Dune. I can believe him having a loose concept for the first three books. After that, it seems, he didn't know where he wanted to go with it and just enjoyed writing about fucking like some demented old pervert. He should've left Dune after three books alone.
You know, aside from fucking up the final book, Brian did actually tie up a lot of these elements in his House trilogy(which starts decades earlier and gradually sets up the OG book). That trilogy is basically about the inner workings of the Atreides, Harkonnen and Corrino families, including a major storyline concerning a Tleilaxu takeover of Ix and have a clearer, tighter storyline than any of Frank's work after the first.
This doesn't excuse Frank for including so many illdefined factions and plot points, but it is worth pointing out imo. I honestly read that trilogy much more often than anything else in this franchise.

In any case, I'm sure you'll have a blast with Lynch's movie. That endless inner monologue whispering is actually in the movie.
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Re: Books

Post by Kugelfisch » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:00 pm

When I'm done moving I'll hit up a pal, get some weed and watch that crap. I'm sure it's hilarious. :lol:
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