Books

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rabidtictac
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Re: Books

Post by rabidtictac » Thu Nov 23, 2023 4:41 am

I've discovered my love for Picaresque stories, thanks in large part to Jack Vance's The Dying Earth. The latter half of that novel is devoted to two protagonists: Cugel the Clever and Rhialto the Marvelous.

Both are con artists. :lol: Cugel is a scammer of the low kind, absolutely shameless and with no morality. He's quick of foot and fast with a sword, but hopelessly outmatched by the beings that inhabit the Dying Earth world. He calls himself the "Clever," and he is good at speaking quickly and fabricating scams. However, he exhibits an astounding lack of wisdom, which leads him to fail repeatedy. :lol:

Rhialto is more of a bureaucrat. Every magician in the Dying Earth world is a tremendous asshole. He's the kind who attempts to loot from his fellow mages via legal (mis)interpretation and faux-democratic politicking. He differs from Cugel by operating on a higher power scale (being a mage,) but is equally as outmatched due to the extraplanar opponents he must navigate.

Vance's prose is beautiful. I decry needless verbosity of the Movieblob type. While Vance's prose may sometimes suggest use of a dictionary, his characters' intentions are always clear from context and easily inferred. Thus, he combines both extravagant and flowery language with surprisingly direct meaning. :lol: Vance is a master of what might be called "insult comedy" or "insult writing." His characters take a very circuitous-yet-amusing route to calling each other assholes.

Neither story is in first-person, but the third-person follows each character quite closely. Especially in the case of Cugel, where I do not believe it pulls focus from his viewpoint for even a second.

I also recently read and enjoyed Fools Errant, another picaresque fantasy story written by Jack Vance fanboy Matthew Hughes. It was excellent, although I then approached his Henghis Hapthorn stories and found them rather underwhelming. Jack Vance's Moon Moth was a good time. Emphyrio too. I know I have Lies of Locke Lamora around here somewhere... I tried reading Book of the New Sun and bounced off it. Aside from the duel, I derived very little enjoyment from the first book. Joe Abercrombie is sometimes suggested as a writer of picaresque-influenced fiction. Eh. Closer to Count of Monte Cristo really. Nicomo Cosca is about the only picaro in his tales.

I guess I should have figured I'd enjoy picaro stories, considering my long-standing love for outlaw fiction like Robin Hood and Water Margin.
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Re: Books

Post by ebin namefag » Thu Nov 23, 2023 5:01 am

rabidtictac wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 4:41 am
Kugel is a scammer of the low kind, absolutely shameless and with no morality.
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VoiceOfReasonPast
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Re: Books

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:14 am

Does D&D magic make more sense after reading the book that inspired it?
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Le Redditeur
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Re: Books

Post by Le Redditeur » Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:42 am

I doubt Jack Vance could have predicted the autism that metamagic and reserve feats would introduce a few decades into his neat system. And the less we talk about the spellweaver, incantatrix, shadowcraft mage, mage of the arcane order, rainbow servant and escalation mage prestige classes, the better.

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Re: Books

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:47 am

You forgot the Truenamer, the Milhouse of spellcasting classes.
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Re: Books

Post by rabidtictac » Thu Nov 23, 2023 8:36 am

Le Redditeur wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:42 am
I doubt Jack Vance could have predicted the autism that metamagic and reserve feats would introduce a few decades into his neat system.
Vance's magic system works because it is unknowable and mysterious. It requires a lifetime of study to memorize even four or five spells per day. The effects of any individual spell being potentially of catastrophic power, equivalent to a nuclear detonation.

You can see this very clearly in the "signature" Vancian spell: The Excellent Prismatic Spray. What does it do? It sends out a spray of colors which seem to function as lasers or some other destructive energy that shreds the victim. What did D&D do with this spell? Is it an instant kill? Fuck no. They made it so ONE of the (infinite) colors hits the opponent and you get 6d10 damage plus some effect, maybe. And they immediately made a shitty version for level 1 wizards called Color Spray that sucks ass.

Notice the difference: The Vancian version is the wizard's tommy gun or flamethrower. If it hits its target, the motherfucker is dead. You only get one cast, but you only need one. D&D is a game though, so they had to make it deal damage on a dice roll and a random effect. The spray is supposed to hit the enemy with every color simultaneously. The point of Vancian spells is they are so powerful that even to invoke their names causes fear. D&D versions of Vancian magic are a pale imitation.

Besides which, something else D&D fails to correctly steal from Vance is that magic and technology are not separate entities in The Dying Earth. The story of Guyal makes this very plain. What many people think of as magical in this world, is actually an example of ancient technology. The magic that wizards learn, they learn alongside astronomy, mathematics and greater scientific principles.

Vance's spells have cooler names than D&D too:

The Spell of Forlorn Encystment
The Green And Purple Postponement Of Joy
Tinkler's Old-fashioned Froust
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VoiceOfReasonPast
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Re: Books

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Thu Nov 23, 2023 9:10 am

Old-school D&D was all about the casters having to earn their fun.
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Re: Books

Post by Rushy » Wed Jan 10, 2024 12:54 am

I bought a collection of Holmes short stories on a whim. This is my first exposure to Conan Doyle.

Aside from Doyle's heavy use of complex vocabulary (I'm guessing that's reflective of the era), what strikes me the most is how mechanically these stories are structured. Everyone goes into an insane level of detail about everything, regardless of how appropriate it is in context. Presumably so the readers can have all the clues clearly laid out. It's very theatrical in that sense.

I do really enjoy the Holmes/Watson dynamic, especially when Holmes makes it clear that Watson is one of his favourite people ever. The warmth between them is quite lovely.

EDIT: The stories I've read so far are "A Scandal in Bohemia", "The Red-Headed League", "Five Orange Pips", "The Man with the Twisted Lip", "The Blue Carbuncle", "The Speckled Band" and "The Copper Beeches". Of these, I think "The Blue Carbuncle" was the best one.
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VoiceOfReasonPast
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Re: Books

Post by VoiceOfReasonPast » Wed Jan 10, 2024 6:25 am

Rushy wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2024 12:54 am
Aside from Doyle's heavy use of complex vocabulary (I'm guessing that's reflective of the era), what strikes me the most is how mechanically these stories are structured. Everyone goes into an insane level of detail about everything, regardless of how appropriate it is in context. Presumably so the readers can have all the clues clearly laid out. It's very theatrical in that sense.
Poe did it first.
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Re: Books

Post by Rushy » Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:02 pm

Been reaidng peril at end house. Its good. Poirot >>> Holmes
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