going through the motions gameplay

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Kugelfisch
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Re: going through the motions gameplay

Post by Kugelfisch » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:43 pm

Doesn't help that many have a tendency to duck from 2D fighters.
The ball is wild!

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rabidtictac
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Re: going through the motions gameplay

Post by rabidtictac » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:48 pm

Poonoo wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:31 pm
rabidtictac wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:23 pm
VoiceOfReasonPast wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:49 pm
Kinda interesting how 2D fighters are kinda big-ish again, while Tekken is pretty much the only 3D fighter still alive.
And it seems like the game's player base is dropping off because of noob-unfriendliness. Or so I'm hearing from the tekken vets. I only play ghost mode psp tekken 6 so I wouldn't know how the online in T7 is, but the amount of legacy knowledge you need to even understand why someone is beating you has to be a barrier to entry.

Rage arts and rage drive were clearly an attempt to bring in new players, along with the guest characters. But it's still Tekken. Selling Tekken to the masses is like selling Virtua Fighter.
The problem is juggles. When a new player comes in and gets juggled like crazy that is really going to piss them off. Once someone gets an opening you can get a damn coffee before the combo is over and there is nothing you can do. Once you get into it and get a better defence you won't get juggled like that all the time but getting into the game is a pain mainly because of that since you truly feel helpless.

They need to take a page out of Killer Instinct's book and have "Juggle Breakers" where you can get out of it by countering by guessing/reading whether they are hitting a Low, Mid or High. That way noobies feel like they have a damn chance and it adds a new meta game to juggles so players don't automatically go for the same damn combo since it does the most damage. That's another factor that can shit you, once they hit a juggle it's the same combo you saw before which can make you feel more stupid.
Makes sense. Juggles were a massive problem in TTT2 because of tag assist, tag filler etc. You could get a juggle combo that did 70% or more of life. :lol: They toned it back a bit for T7 but it's still big on juggles from what I hear.

The issue, from my perspective, with juggles is the risk-reward on it. If you play a character who has a mid launcher, low launcher and high launcher, that's a solid 50/50 or better that the opponent has to guess what you're going to do. A lot of hopkicks are apparently only -13 or -14. That's punishable in-person, but online with lag, it can be very difficult to get more than a jab punish (a 1, 1, 2, etc). So the risk-reward on doing a hopkick is fucked. If you win, you get a massively huge combo. If they block, odds are a newer player won't be able to punish correctly. If they block AND they know to punish, they won't get much more than a jab punish and maybe some oki.

Additionally, people like mainmanSWE have talked about matchup knowledge a lot and the burden it places on new players. Certain characters are so unique that you really can't beat them unless you know their gimmicks. At lower ranks, a new player using a capo or Claudio is going to have a massive advantage over a newer player using someone like Kazuya, Jin or Leo. Snake edge Bryan players have been a thing for a long time because, again, you're playing in lag against a player who has a low launcher, high launcher (jet upper) and I'm pretty sure a mid launcher too. Well, his ff3 is a safe wallsplat IIRC.

Juggles weren't AS nuts in Tekken 5. Tekken 6 added the bound system, which I'm ok with, but it definitely increase the amount of air time on juggles.

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rabidtictac
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Re: going through the motions gameplay

Post by rabidtictac » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:50 pm

Kugelfisch wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:43 pm
Doesn't help that many have a tendency to duck from 2D fighters.
Ducking seems to be one of those things in Tekken where it's extremely situational. Ducking against King or Armor King or even Kazuya is probably fine, since that forces them to use their more shitty mid options. But a lot of characters in tekken have mid launchers and mid wallsplats into massive "completely unearned khambos." :lol:

Oh wait, lel I forgot about Kazuya while rising 1, 2.

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