Basements & Beards- Analogue Gaming Thread

[VoiceOfReasonPast]

And you guys didn't even have to bring up Pun-Pun.

[Guest]

Pun-pun's lame. Any TO exploit that relies on the GM going along with it to work is lame.

[VoiceOfReasonPast]

So, back to some shit I wanted to write regarding Zweihänder.
Fairly innocent Warhammer Fantasy RPG retroclone, if you can forgive the fact that the people that made it can't into image compression. Srsly the core book used to be OVER 700 MB at one point, which is about 1 MB per page. I've never seen that before. Most tabletop RPG PDFs you can get are usually way below 50 MB, maybe a bit larger if the PDF is particularly fancy and/or the pages are just shitty scans.
Thankfully they remembered to add in a "low-rez" version, which sits at just below 50 MB while being virtually indistinguishable from the "high-rez" version. Let that sink in.

Support for alternative settings is also a bit meager, which is probably thanks to the career system that made the Warhammer RPG so famous. Player Characters basically hop between careers in accordance to how they're developing over the course of the campaign, with a truly shitload of options ranging "actual historical shitfarmer profession" to "literally a unit type from the wargame".
How much is a shitload? Well, the most iconic 2nd edition of the Warhammer RPG eventually released a Career Compendium with over 200 pages of nothing but careers, and Zweihänder comes pretty close to that together with its main supplement.

Mind you, these careers aren't equivalent to say a D&D class, since the game is some kind of restricted skill-based system where your current career just dictates how you can spend your XP.
But still, trying to use the system for any setting besides "Late Medieval / Warhammer" will probably quickly diminish your selection of careers.

After the fabled Tetsubo (the sourcebook for Warhammer's Not-Japan that has been promised since 1e) didn't materialize once again because the writer realized he was too white to write about Japan, there hasn't been much in terms of setting support besides what they call "Chapbooks" for their Not-40k and some third-party Western thing (whose main and perhaps only research material was Red Dead Redemption), which are a few dozen pages long and really only provide you with a rough setting outline, a list of equipment, and a handful of new careers with the helpful suggestion of just tweaking the ones from the core if you need more careers (and you will need more).
These things really remind me of typical homebrew conversions (like say Star Wars for Savage Worlds), except more half-assed.

That is until this Kickstarter:


Basically historical fantasy horror, set shortly before the American War of Independence. You can probably tell this is a "touchy" subject matter.
Several Backers seemed to get worried because the SJW seemed to be out of control in this book, and the final product shows it. Highlights include:

• DO NOT DISCRIMMINATE!
• PLAYER CHARACTERS CANNOT OWN SLAVES!

There's also something similar to the latest edition of Chivalry & Sorcery, where they dedicate at least a page for each minority they want to virtue-signal for. The respective section in this book has the lovely title of "Strength in Diversity", where they talk about black people, Natives and of course women. Unsurprisingly, they are lecturing you that YOU SHALL NOT STEREOTYPE OUR NOBLE MINORITIES, FOR THEY ARE UNIQUE AND DIVERSE.
Oh, don't you worry. My Comanche warrior with a specialty in roasting people that aren't Comanche alive will be as true to history as possible

This is also where I notice that the side-effect of virtue-signaling inside of your own book is that you come across as being paranoid of your customers (like how books that talk about "X-Cards" and other forms of "consent in gaming" seem to assume that players and GMs are constantly trying to rape someone).

Though the weirdest part is that Flames of Freedom is actually a spiritual successor to an older line called Colonial Gothic.
The book itself doesn't really mention this, but they have the main writer and some other bloke who worked on Colonial Gothic before, and they literally copy-pasted some sections from that older RPG (like when they describe the general premise of the setting).

Why the secrecy? Well, the latest edition of Colonial Gothic is like 10 years or so old, so naturally it would be more based than the current version:

• "Slavery" in the old edition only really comes up in the context of player options (be a Freed Slave!), a description of Quakers (they hate it!), and as an enemy encounter you might have (maybe you run into a group of slavers!)
• Any sort of "Diversity" only shows up in the context that the New Colonies were a melting pot.
• No mention of transshit (which of course gets mentioned in the pozzed version AND YOU SHALL NOT DISCRIMMINATE TRANS PEOPLE)
• "Gender" got all of 2 paragraphs devoted to it, which can be mostly summarized with "This book was written with the default assumption that gender doesn't really matter, but it's ultimately your choice how to handle it".

That last point also has This also includes 2 sentence you will probably not find in any new edition:

Human beings being what they are, men and women relate to one another differently
and there is little reason to assume a lack of discrimination will totally eliminate the
recognition of gender differences. If you choose to make your character a man or a
woman, you may encounter certain benefits or hindrances that you would not have if
you were the opposite gender.

[wulfenlord]

After the fabled Tetsubo didn't materialize once again because the writer realized he was too white to write about Japan

Whatever happened to the good ol' fedora-tippin', Katana hanging on the wall, Otakus who were sages of the grorious nihonese master-race, fit to lecture and write about it any way they wanted. Sad

Care to quote some of the pls don't discriminate against anyune goodness from the book for entertainment?

[VoiceOfReasonPast]

With pleasure. I didn't even have to pirate anything because for some reason the preview file on DriveThru (which usually serve to give you an overview of the table of context, the introduction and general presentation of the actual product) is 100 pages long (most preview files generally stay in the single digits). I can only assume the full product has many more nuggest of wisdom.

The game will thrust your character into situations
where they will stand against enemies who use
historically harmful acts to meet their heinous
goals. While FLAMES OF FREEDOM creates
a narrative of liberation and opportunity in-game,
this was not the reality for many living within
and near North America. We mustn’t ignore that
the past’s terrible truths happend, even in a game
centered in colonial America.

Well, good thing it's only historically harmful.
Also note that this is apparently the closest we will get to a decolonization simulator until Evil Hat Productions finally delivers their amazing toolkit.

FLAMES OF FREEDOM draws heavily
upon the American Gothic genre, rooted in
Christian (specifically Puritan) ideas of good and
evil, humanity’s sinfulness and the supernatural.
However, Christianity is not the only religion
practiced in this game, and players can and should
play characters from a wide variety of spiritual
and religious backgrounds. Article 10: Life
During Wartime provides a historical context for
portraying characters of different faiths.

Don't make a game about Christian horror if you can't handle Christianity?

Do you ask if I am a Quaker, a member of the Society
of Friends? I once was, but I am now a Universal
Friend. What is that, you ask? I have walked with
Public Universal Friend, but likely you’ve never heard
their story. They were a Quaker who succumbed to
typhus but resurrected by God’s light. ‘The Friend’
has attracted several women to their side. Like all
Universal Friends, we now spread the word of free will
and abolition.

I'm just quoting this because "Public Universal Friend" was preacher obsessed with being genderless. I wonder why they referenced him...
Also note that Quakers were already for free will and abolition.

FLAMES OF FREEDOM represents a mélange of
heritages and conflicting beliefs, one where cultures
and genders outside traditional standards were equally
instrumental in fomenting and conducting the
rebellion.

Never forget the contribution of the 3rd Gender Regiment in securing American freedom.
(The book prefers to use "two-spirit people", actually. You can't talk about stuff relating to Natives without bringing up muh glorious other gender options.)

We’ll help provide tips to help you create
interesting Black characters without turning
them into caricatures. We’ll provide guidance on
how to portray Black people from this period in
Article 10: Life During Wartime.

ONE IMPORTANT ASPECT to know about
the Indigenous peoples of Turtle Island is that
they are a varied people and not a monolithic
culture. They do not fit the television and cinema
tropes of a tanned folk with stern faces on
horseback but are individuals who still exist today.

"Turtle Island", as the book helpfully explains, is just some weird-ass Native term for North America. Also apparently the writer thinks his dear readers have never heard of the concept of "tribes".

Everyone can feel the pressure
from the rising violence, and no one lifts a brow
at those who break out of traditional gender roles
to embrace themselves and manifest what [sic] women
are just as capable of as men

Has a different ring to it than Colonial Gothic, doesn't it?

Let us be clear: FLAMES OF FREEDOM is not a
tabletop role-playing game where you will discriminate
against women, practice slavery and indentured servitude,
slaughter innocent people or ‘tame the wilderness’ of
Indigenous Nations.

This is just like playing Skyrim for the first time and realizing that children are immortal
Also a helpful text box as the very next paragraph:

THIS GAME DOES not endorse racial or
gender discrimination based on differences in
the period. Regardless of their identity, there are
no mechanical, intellectual, physical, emotional or
spiritual distinctions between women, men, intersex,
agender, non-binary and transgender characters.
That said, people relate differently to one another,
and there is no reason to ignore differences because
the game world does not embrace discrimination
as its real-world counterpart.

Boy am I glad that this historical horror shitfarm simulator is a more progressive era than the real deal.

As you read the different cultures, they talk about
experiences related to the American Revolutionary
War. Consider the implications of playing a
culture that isn’t your own. Your character is an
inspiration formed from culture, not a stereotype.
It is a manifestation of history, experiences, arts
and achievements. Some people wear their culture
proudly and in everything they do—like cooking,
music and social interaction. How can you celebrate
it? Where do you want to draw inspiration?

Don't worry, my Comanche warrior is proud of his heritage and celebrates Comanche supremacy by burning lesser people alive, one peace at a time.
>the random table does not feature Comanche


The rest of the preview is mostly just game mechanics and a few of the careers. For some reason these careers have a first-person description. That goes on for two paragraphs. Because nothing is more entertaining in the world of tabletop RPGs than reading the smug monologue of dozens of faceless NPCs.
I also appreciate that this "DO NOT STEREOTYPE" RPG has a stereotype for each and every character choice.

The Description of the Dowser (yes that's a class in this)Show

The earth holds many secrets unseen by mortal
man. Within its fertile ground, the bounty necessary for
life grows. As we push the frontier of this new land ever
westward, we must ensure we have the most precious of
Mother Earth’s gifts—water. I have the skill to divine
what lies beneath the soil, and though most employ me
for my skills at finding water, I can sense many things—
good clay for throwing, burrows of vermin and even
veins of lustrous gold. Some think me an off the hook
charlatan, but the results of my labors more than support
my claims.
I did not ask for this gift, however. Though often
it may seem a blessing, it is in fact a curse. The earth
hides many things, good and bad, but lately, it seems the
ground sours more and more every day. I used to find
simple objects, precious stones or other sundry things,
but I have stumbled on grotesqueries as of late: massive
graves, pits leading to unknown depths and vile toxins
that devour the land. A shadow seeps out of the earth,
and it nourishes a vile crop, one that seems unnatural
and hungry. The earth is growing ever darker, and I
cannot reckon why.

[Newhalf]

I'm not sure why, but reading this gives me F.A.T.A.L. vibes. (anyone remember THAT "amazing" PnP system and setting?)
I'm not sure why because that was a setting where your turds would often come to live and try to kill you somehow, but that still seems less shitty than this amazing shit fest.
Also every woman in that setting is going to experience rape at least once in life granted the perpetrators can overcome the hymen toughness stat.

The earth holds many secrets unseen by mortal
man.

So in that weirdly specific kind of ruleset that means that women (and other 'non—men') can see them?

[VoiceOfReasonPast]

It's just some generic fluff they use to reinforce that normies are completely oblivious to the supernatural shit you're going to run into ('cause the most important thing about historical RPGs is that any monsters, magic, super powers or steampunk you put into it shall never have an actual impact on historical events).
I am however shocked that they did not make the sentence gender-neutral.

I'm not sure why, but reading this gives me F.A.T.A.L. vibes. (anyone remember THAT "amazing" PnP system and setting?)
I'm not sure why because that was a setting where your turds would often come to live and try to kill you somehow, but that still seems less shitty than this amazing shit fest.

I think it's the autism you can read between the lines.

[Kugelfisch]

So, as I have never played a PnP (and never will), please explain something.
I get that you need some RPG system. What dice to roll, what's generally possible to do and shit.

The fuck does all the faggot shit matter? Can't you just straight up ignore it? Most of what you've mentioned here is just shitty fluff, no?

I guess overall I just don't get what the actual product is. If you have a stat system and all the mechanical stuff, you can just make up whatever setting you want?

[VoiceOfReasonPast]

Of course you can ignore it, but people get triggered by the annoying attitude these books showcase. At best this is some weird-ass trust issue with their own players ("If don't forbid them from using this as Indigenous Genocide Simulator, they will totally use this as Indigenous Genocide Simulator"), and at worst it's some insufferable virtue-signaling by insecure clowns who can't stand the idea that one of their customers might have political opinions that are even slightly different from theirs.
Not only does this waste page space, but people generally don't buy overpriced books that tell them they're guilty of toughtcrime.

Of course, the shit in this book is rather tame compared to this:


Those points are also in the actual Blade Bitch tome. What does respecting immigrants have to do with lesbian make-believe sex? Do they honestly think that Nazi Terfs (tm) would ever consider playing this game in the first place? Who the fuck knows.
Though I do enjoy the irony of anti-gatekeepers gatekeeping their little niche vanity projects.

[Moe Bitches]